I am writing this as a reaction to the post by George Iulian JIGLAU: “Getting sensitive (part I): Is the EU capable of dealing with the problems of the Roma?”
I should start with one thing about the roma’s origin: the romas that live in eastern Europe are originally from India. As the legend goes they were the lowest class there and weren’t even regarded as people. In Bulgaria, the roma are divided into several tribes. One of them is considered a sort of an aristocracy. They had an indigenous language, traditions and culture, but throughout the centuries they have accepted most of those in the countries they reside. I believe that the situation is similar all over eastern Europe. The roma in Bulgaria for example don’t understand the language of those in Serbia. That is also the reason why they have a problem getting together and forming a community and a nation.
I am far from the thought that the roma are a lower class of people. Some of the most famous and educated people in Bulgaria are roma. It has however been proven very hard to integrate most into society. The communists tried to do it forcefully for years and now we do it though dialog and education. It is however a very slow process and the lack of understanding of what the roma are and how they think is the main problem in this aspect.
Simply throwing money at the problem would not do it. That is how the EU addresses the problem right now. The solution for countries like Italy, Germany, Norway and Britain is to extradite those people back from where they came from with a note “It’s your problem, not ours”. Then to clear the continence of the different ethical committees, millions are thrown in constructing new shiny homes and building community centers. When they leave however those building are dismantled and sold piece by piece. I’ve seen it several times in the roma gethos in my own city.
What may solve the problems of the roma? Well first off, they should stop being considered as a problem, but as a symptom. Secondly a tough program in primary and sexual education would be needed. And thirdly, but not most importantly, we need to realize that there is not one roma, but several such. The problems of each roma community are closely linked with those of the countries they reside in. That is why devising a strategy about all roma has failed so far.
Roma riots in Sofia in the middle of 2007 were they chanted “Death to Bulgarians”Roma are considered a problem by the people of every country in eastern Europe. Bulgarians and Romanians don’t see the problems of the roma, because the first thing that comes to mind is the petty robberies and gang murders. The most difficult task would be to change the public opinion on the subject. We had hundreds of years of building up impressions of the roma and cracking them will take quite lot of effort. The task seems even harder when we add the economic and political problems in the region. People need to blame someone and point fingers. In Bulgaria the romas are an easy political target for that. When election come, they are pointed as a liability to democracy, because they sell their votes openly. When bills are to be collected, no one dares to enter their neighborhood out of fear. Even the police. This is what all Bulgarians know. Certain widely disputed cases of violence and corruption harden that belief.
Lastly, education should be improved within the group. Schools are there not only to teach the children how to read and do math, but also how to respect the rules and the elderly. From my own experience I’ve seen that roma with good education even at the primary level are a lot more accepted in the Bulgarian community and workforce. There are enough schools in the roma neighborhoods, but the attendance was poor, which results in very low literacy rates. It is simply more profitable to send the children to beg than to learn. In the past years there were a lot of incentives that stimulated the parents to send their kids to school and to punished them otherwise by taking away their social help after several violations. These punishments were applied to all Bulgarians, but were clearly designed for the roma.
An important part of what these kids learn should be sexual education and family planning. On mentioning these terms a lot of people start labeling the suggestion as racist and aiming at breeding roma out. Quite the opposite. The child mortality among romas is skyrocketing and forms most of the percentage for Bulgaria in that aspect. There are many reported cases, in which the mothers have their children at home in far from acceptable conditions and sometimes go to the hospital to register it. Worse still is the age of marriage and pregnancy - as low as 13 and 14. All these are considered normal in the roma community and any attempt to suggest otherwise faces aggression.
We all value the goal of the EU to preserve all local cultures and traditions while improving trade, communication and security. In the case of rome however, my believe is that certain traditions need to be rethought in order to solve their problems. Having a baby at the age of 14 and 6 more on the average by the age of 30 practically cuts off the chances of ever being educated, having any job or being part of the society.
Then again I may be wrong - probably the usual way of the EU can do the trick. You could see that from another standpoint - the policies and practices of the EU so far were designed to tackle problems that have appeared in an union of countries in western Europe. The social problem in Bulgaria and Romania are very different from those in Germany and France. When we talk about the EU elections we say that it would be best to have one instead of 27 different elections. In the case of the roma, we need 27 different approaches instead of one. I say 27, because by the time you have read this post though, another bus of romas have arrived in any one of the EU member countries with their problems pending our solution.
(35 votes, average: 3.89 out of 5)
Loading ...
boyan, you built a coherent argument and in general complementary to what i wrote in my post.
the idea of a roma nation is not essential here, but the fact that they face severe social issues. you are right that their problems are strongly dependent to those of the communities they live in, yet these problems are similar no matter where they are. even the solutions you put forward have something global in them and suitable for roma everywhere. plus, if local communitites or member states failed to come up with an answer to deal with the roma at the local or national level, it might be up to the EU to step in. it may not be (just) money that is needed, but maybe just a coherent line of policies that can be applied in member states. we may need 27 solutions for the roma, but they are surely a EUROPEAN issue, precisely because of the latest bus full of roma arriving in some member state while i wrote this comment
very few people enter roma neighborhoods everywhere, also because of fear, as you said it is the case in bulgaria. it’s the same here in cluj, though i’m leaving in a few minutes to record some images in the two roma camps next to the town. i admit i also have a sense of.. tension before going there, even though i was there before. they are desperate people and desperate people, no matter the reason, are always potentially dangerous. in these camps we only have the poor type of roma, not the aristocratic one you also mentioned. but roma aristocrats are present all over romania, with their shiny ugly houses and local laws which foster crime.
nevertheless, i refuse to believe that there is nothing we can do to help them live a civilized life. i don’t reffer here to their traditions, but to basic rights.
There are several very important differences between your opinion and mine:
First of all, I don’t refer to the roma as a nation, but as a collection of many tribes that have been drown apart even further thoughout the ages.
Secondly, I don’t think they have one “Romanes” language, because the roma in Bulgaria can barely understand those in Serbia and Romania. Even when they travel in wester Europe to perform or steal, they stay apart.
Thirdly, I don’t believe that a pan-european program will do any good. The situation of the roma is similar all over Europe, but like I said in the article - that is a symptom of the problem - not the problem. The roma in Romania and Bulgaria have different traditions and livelihood. In 1998 - right after the crisis in Bulgaria - the roma in the town I was born had more satellite dishes per capita than everyone else. Every day a new came up and every family had one, despite the fact that they lived in slum houses.
Dealing with their social and economic problems will take EU oversight, but nothing else. Hans Rosling made a wonderful presentation for TED, where he showed how diverse Africa is and how applying one strategy for all does and will not do. We have the same here.
ok, i assume these conceptual differences exist, but they are not that big as you might think. the many roma tribes living around europe or the world share many elements at list similar with those of a nation. i think every nation meant, originally, a collection of many tribes. i’m not a linguist, but the language of serbian roma and bulgarian roma are at least dialects of the same language. the roma have different dialects even across romania and it’s normal that their language is influenced by the dominant language of the country they live in.
but nationhood and language are not the main point here.
about the sattelite dishes you mentioned as an argument for the different lifestyles of romanian and bulgarian roma, you should wait until i upload the video i made today around the roma camps with slum houses next to cluj and you’ll see the same thing. and i’m sure there are more such common points.
comparing the roma to africa is at least an exaggeration, but i don’t we should get into that.
no one was able to come up with at least one good strategy for these people. i don’t think we should think of several.
your view and my view are two sides of the same story, that’s what i think.
After I published this post, a roma activist from the city of Pazardjik contacted me in Facebook. Pazardjik has one of the biggest roma neighborhoods in Bulgaria and is notorious with its problems. She agreed with me about the differences among the roma communities and offered me contacts with roma journalists for more information on their traditions and culture.
Seeing the slum houses and the dirt is really one side of the coin. It is often used as example material for political campaigns and journalistic sensations. The reason we see no results right now is that such images and clips that you offer and that I have used in the article above, have been capitalized upon for many years now, but result in no real action or change in the public opinion. Seeing suffering in the news no longer inflicts the proper humane response in the viewer exactly due to the overuse of such images.
The gethos in which the roma live are not the problem itself. During the communism in Bulgaria most of the roma were moved into new apartment buildings and lived together with other bulgarians. They paid no rent or taxes and their only task was to integrate themselves into society. What happened was that most of them went back to the slums and trashed the apartments. There were even cases of arson and mass robberies in the buildings they lived in.
Such examples lead many to believe that the problem is in the roma themselves, but I think that though extensive educational programs that are adapted to the specific psyche of the different communities, the decadent ways of life of many can be improved. The lack of understanding, the attempts to solve the matter on large scale and the political over-sensitivity on the problem are the reasons why we see little to no improvement right now.
As long as Bulgarians does not regard Roma communities (and Turks and eventually Africans who’ll come to Bulgaria to work one day) we cannot expect the situation to change. It is always the argument with the appartments, the electricity rates and, last but not least, with their traditions (marriage, value system, etc.).
In my opinion, this is not the right approach to solve the problem, which you call the symptom of the problem. I might agree with you on this, if you mean that the attitude toward minorities in Eastern Europe is meant to be the problem, of which the Roma-question is only one dimension.
I think, that the problem lies in ourselves - we are a small and young country or nation, if you want, that lives on some false and exaggerated assumptions. Instead of looking forward to solve our problems (most of which come from the inside!!!) we are worried that Roma and Turkish share of the population grows steadily. It is this fear that impedes us to change our attitude. You imply some sort of helping them changing their culture, but let me ask you: Why don’t we change ours first?
I think that until most Bulgarians use phrases like “ciganska rabota” or little kids a told to eat up in order not to be beaten by the ‘gipsy’ the situation will not change. In our country, we think we are the best and the most and the rest is below us. Think about it! Tolerance and equality is the first step toward a solution - but I don’t mean talking ‘tolerance’, but rather feeling it!
[...] Да бъдем реалисти: Как могат да се решат проблемите на
Samuilchu is right, not that our intolerant and narrow-minded society is going to change, not in generation’s perspective.
Aside from serious matters, author sure needs English lessons: “easter Europe” can happen to anyone, but, “gangbang murders”… wow.
Sorry, I was going for gangbanger murders.
Един капиталист казал: битието определя съзнанието.
Еднаквият социален статус оформя обща сборна група: например в малки градове и села често живеят на семейни начала представители на българския и циганския етнос и границите се заличават. Образованието го има само на книга в повеаето случаи. Питам едно циганче в четвърти клас колко е 3х3 - не знае. Майка му се опитва да подскаже и му щепне: 6.
Примери още бол! Както се казва: няма рима, но е истина.